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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
10/26/2016 9:18 am
setherick wrote:
What attributes allow a QB to make a decision? FOV? I mean really. I'm done getting sacks because the QB holds the ball forever.


The WR runs the route, and when he gets to the point where he should receive the ball the QB makes a decision about whether he is open enough to throw to. FOV comes into play to decide whether he sees defenders in the area, but there are other pieces like experience that help him make a decision. If he decides to throw the ball, his release attribute determines how long it takes him to go from the decision to throw to the actual launch of the ball. If he decides it's not open enough, he will go to his next progression. The timing is driven mostly by the route.

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By setherick
10/26/2016 9:57 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
setherick wrote:
What attributes allow a QB to make a decision? FOV? I mean really. I'm done getting sacks because the QB holds the ball forever.


The WR runs the route, and when he gets to the point where he should receive the ball the QB makes a decision about whether he is open enough to throw to. FOV comes into play to decide whether he sees defenders in the area, but there are other pieces like experience that help him make a decision. If he decides to throw the ball, his release attribute determines how long it takes him to go from the decision to throw to the actual launch of the ball. If he decides it's not open enough, he will go to his next progression. The timing is driven mostly by the route.


Since the pass isn't going to arrive instantly, this means the decision is being made at least a second too late. No wonder WRs on short routes complete their routes and then start sprinting downfield before the QB makes a decision to throw it to them.

I'm seeing why QBs stand around so long before they get sacked.

They stare down a receiver until he reaches a predetermined point, which could be well beyond the point where the QB should make a decision and is likely beyond a point where the QB should throw as determined by the play call. (If the QB stares down the receiver running a medium or long route on a short pass.) And only once that point is reached does the QB throw the ball which will take time to arrive at the point where the receiver no longer is.

This allows enough time for the OL to break down and the QB to take pressure at which point he is likely to run (if he doesn't just take a sack). Both running and taking pressure will negatively impact the accuracy of the throw to that predetermined point.

I completely understand now why 50% completion rate is the hallmark of excellence in this game.
Last edited at 10/26/2016 10:06 am

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By setherick
10/29/2016 6:59 am
Here's a good example of what waiting for a receiver to complete a route before deciding to throw gets you. The receiver finishes his route and the QB that has been patiently waiting for him to complete his route. Then he finally decides to throw the ball to the WR. Except by this time the WR doesn't know what to do so he's sprinting back to the LOS. Bam. 0 yard pass: https://mfn67.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/778#145453

This is a timing route. The QB should check the coverage on the primary receiver and throw the ball before the WR makes the move if he's going to throw it there. Otherwise, he should be moving on to his second option and the receiver should start running his alternate route.

Later in the same game: https://mfn67.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/778#145526

And before you start complaining that people don't have good OL and deserve to get sacked, JDB, actually look at my offensive line on that team. It's ridiculous how bad the passing game has become.
Last edited at 10/29/2016 7:10 am

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By setherick
10/29/2016 7:23 am
But, really, how bad is the passing game? In MFN-6, I took over a team and put together an OL that has 100 pass block potential across all 5 players. My LT has 100 SP, but the SP on the rest of the players isn't that great. How do they as a group? Last game, they gave up 11 sacks to Lellow's three defensive play (4-3 double LB blitz, Nickle Corner Double LB blitz, and Goalline Attack #2 I think it was 2). My QB ended up with negative passing yards because of it: https://mfn6.myfootballnow.com/box/view/5088

But, yes, absolutely OL is the problem in the game. I mean I obviously don't have an OL that will keep the DL out of the QB's face like JDB likes to point out so often when we complain about the passing game. I guess I could have tried to find 5 RBs with 100 SP and 100 Pass Block. Is that the right OL? I guess we'll find out in 76 where my entire OL will have 90+ SP and 90+ Pass Block. Maybe they'll only give up 3-4 sacks per game on average.

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By lellow2011
10/29/2016 7:28 am
setherick wrote:
But, really, how bad is the passing game? In MFN-6, I took over a team and put together an OL that has 100 pass block potential across all 5 players. My LT has 100 SP, but the SP on the rest of the players isn't that great. How do they as a group? Last game, they gave up 11 sacks to Lellow's three defensive play (4-3 double LB blitz, Nickle Corner Double LB blitz, and Goalline Attack #2 I think it was 2). My QB ended up with negative passing yards because of it: https://mfn6.myfootballnow.com/box/view/5088

But, yes, absolutely OL is the problem in the game. I mean I obviously don't have an OL that will keep the DL out of the QB's face like JDB likes to point out so often when we complain about the passing game. I guess I could have tried to find 5 RBs with 100 SP and 100 Pass Block. Is that the right OL? I guess we'll find out in 76 where my entire OL will have 90+ SP and 90+ Pass Block. Maybe they'll only give up 3-4 sacks per game on average.


I key the 1-1-3 formation for that double blitz, but otherwise I have 17 defensive plays selected. Interesting that it leans so heavily on the same 4-5

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By setherick
10/29/2016 7:43 am
lellow2011 wrote:
setherick wrote:
But, really, how bad is the passing game? In MFN-6, I took over a team and put together an OL that has 100 pass block potential across all 5 players. My LT has 100 SP, but the SP on the rest of the players isn't that great. How do they as a group? Last game, they gave up 11 sacks to Lellow's three defensive play (4-3 double LB blitz, Nickle Corner Double LB blitz, and Goalline Attack #2 I think it was 2). My QB ended up with negative passing yards because of it: https://mfn6.myfootballnow.com/box/view/5088

But, yes, absolutely OL is the problem in the game. I mean I obviously don't have an OL that will keep the DL out of the QB's face like JDB likes to point out so often when we complain about the passing game. I guess I could have tried to find 5 RBs with 100 SP and 100 Pass Block. Is that the right OL? I guess we'll find out in 76 where my entire OL will have 90+ SP and 90+ Pass Block. Maybe they'll only give up 3-4 sacks per game on average.


I key the 1-1-3 formation for that double blitz, but otherwise I have 17 defensive plays selected. Interesting that it leans so heavily on the same 4-5


I think it's still a good example game since so many owners are now running that exact same three play defense.

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By lellow2011
10/29/2016 9:18 am
setherick wrote:
lellow2011 wrote:
setherick wrote:
But, really, how bad is the passing game? In MFN-6, I took over a team and put together an OL that has 100 pass block potential across all 5 players. My LT has 100 SP, but the SP on the rest of the players isn't that great. How do they as a group? Last game, they gave up 11 sacks to Lellow's three defensive play (4-3 double LB blitz, Nickle Corner Double LB blitz, and Goalline Attack #2 I think it was 2). My QB ended up with negative passing yards because of it: https://mfn6.myfootballnow.com/box/view/5088

But, yes, absolutely OL is the problem in the game. I mean I obviously don't have an OL that will keep the DL out of the QB's face like JDB likes to point out so often when we complain about the passing game. I guess I could have tried to find 5 RBs with 100 SP and 100 Pass Block. Is that the right OL? I guess we'll find out in 76 where my entire OL will have 90+ SP and 90+ Pass Block. Maybe they'll only give up 3-4 sacks per game on average.


I key the 1-1-3 formation for that double blitz, but otherwise I have 17 defensive plays selected. Interesting that it leans so heavily on the same 4-5


I think it's still a good example game since so many owners are now running that exact same three play defense.


I have changed my secondary and linebacker percentages, perhaps that will call a few more different plays in that league. I usually set a lot of base tactics and rarely change them, especially during the regular season.

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By setherick
11/05/2016 7:04 am
Why is it so unlikely for a QB to stand in the pocket, know that defender is baring down, and deliver a strike to a WR less than 20 yards away: https://mfn6.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/5125#979063

Is that "under pressure" penalty a constant? Or is it random like everything else in the passing game? If it's a constant, than QBs are more screwed than I initially thought.

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By WarEagle
11/05/2016 8:48 am
IRL, under pressure doesn't mean less accurate.

QBs are praised all the time for the ability/willingness to "stand in there" and make the pass knowing they are going to get hit.

In MFN under pressure = close your eyes and hope for the best.

Re: Revert the Penalty Applied to Short Passes

By Ares
11/05/2016 2:27 pm
WarEagle wrote:
IRL, under pressure doesn't mean less accurate.

QBs are praised all the time for the ability/willingness to "stand in there" and make the pass knowing they are going to get hit.


IRL, under pressure actually does mean less accurate.

Don't believe me? Check out this article from PFF examining the impact of pressure on QB performance: https://www.profootballfocus.com/examining-pressure/

In fact, not only does pressure impact a QB, but for every sack they take their overall accuracy will decrease by an average of 0.5% for the duration of the game regardless of whether or not they're under pressure: https://www.profootballfocus.com/cumulative-effect-hitting-the-qb/

Okay, you're saying, but that's just PFF. What do they know? Well if you prefer Football Outsiders and their DVOA statistic, here's their take on the pressure to QB performance relationship: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2015

That's just for 2015. They've been doing this for many years, and every year there's been a very strong correlation between decreased performance and QB pressure.

There is variance between which QBs perform better or worse under pressure, though it is clear that all fare worse than their average baseline. I would personally nominate Discipline and play knowledge as the factors for determining whether a QB performs better or worse than average in terms of allowing pressure to negatively impact them.
Last edited at 11/05/2016 2:27 pm