You're missing the overall context. I've had two games in beta, and both were blowouts. In the first game, I just wasn't getting to the end zone.

Here's game 1 for context: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/box/3560

But here are the things that bother me, and I think show the problems with thinking that 4.6 is better for the average player of MFN.

1) My QB was a free agent pickup. He was much higher rated than the QBs on my roster so off they went and on he came. So what has this scrub done?

2 games - 51/80 - 486 - 6 - 2 (sacked 3 times)

He is currently #30 in yards (he's out thrown one of the guys I cut), #8 in TDs thrown, and #2 in QBR. He's played 2 games from off the street, so we'll see where he ends up, but I expect his numbers to stay pretty steady.

2) My current RB1 is a (I just realized) 187 pound player that I picked up from FA. That scrub has run 26 times for 181 yards at 7 YPC.

3) My RB2 is a holdover. Who has run 33 times for 151 (~5 YPC), which isn't bad since he's a 79 SP back with bad AC.

But what's going to be demoralizing to players that don't game plan is what I've done with a practice squad defense. I haven't played against either one of these players that much so I don't know about their play styles other than these two games.

In the first game, when I was trying to get defensive rules in place, I held my at the time 4-1 opponent to a respectable 160 total yards. 43 yards rushing, 117 passing (with 3 INTs). I gave up big plays on multiple defensive plays that I was going to try and pulled (so much for those).

So with my basic base defense, in game 2, I held the opponent to 10(!!!) total yards. My opponent's 100 accuracy (and god awful everywhere else) QB went 5/19. His two 50 SP RBs ran for -1 yard.

MFN has always had a learning curve, which I understand and respect, and I know how to win without elite players. And my team is likely to lose a whole lot to better teams in this next two seasons in beta. But if I can come in and put a scrap heap team together that shuts down opponents or runs off 90 plays, what happens when I have a team that I have built up into the system that I want.

4.6 is going to make things unenjoyably hard for players learning to play the game, those that don't want to sink a lot of time into game planning (I mean I like rule build, most don't), and unenjoyably boring for people that don't like to grind every game to 80-90 plays (again I like ball control game planning, but I also like to see big plays because they end up being an equalizer).

There’s a major flaw in your 4.6 argument. I am almost 100% certain that I am the most inexperienced manager in lol, and your point revolves about a steep learning curve? Sure there are some questionable game planners and team builders in the league, but they’ve all been doing it a lot longer than my 4 total seasons (3 in v4.5). I don’t set rules, so I guess I am simply your “practice squad” offense and defense, but I’m 6-0 with a qb completing 80% of his passes who was also a free agent grab last season. Maybe I’m not the average noob, but I’m sure I will lose when I face a veteran in the playoffs that actually puts in the effort. That effort is the difference, your friend CJfred joined up same time and has gone 0-2. Is that because 4.6 is so hard? And you’ve gone 2-0 because u r better? It could be argued he had the better team to start with. If all these other managers are so much more experienced than me, why are so many of them terrible, and I’m having so much fun? Bottom line, I am the Beta novice, I have played both versions, won in both versions, don’t cheat the system to do it, and feel there are pros and cons to each, the best possible 4.6 would be a sweet spot somewhere in between the changes that took things too far (pass rush, run blocking, deep passing). While keeping the broken bits out.

Setherick,

When did you and I become friends??

LOL

I mean we've never really disagreed.

Also, we'll see if we're still friends after you light up my defense.

The problem with Beta is in one league I've got 3 major weapons on offense and coming off Preseason Game #1 where I play with my 4.5 style aggression I didn't extract one explosive play of any kind of speed from an elite 95 speed WR (actually 92 speed, 95 acceleration), a 93 speed WR or a mega star RB maxed out in vitals.

On the flip side of the coin, in Legends, I crafted the deepest 4.6 tailored game plan on offense to avoid all over-use calls and to try to rattle up the game engine. Maybe it's a long haul wait and see but it looks like the only way I can break through is if I force run keys and beat that for gainers. However, if that doesn't work with the way I laid it out to try and achieve passing I don't know what will!

I wouldn't worry too much about that, I'm still playing around with my play selection and experimenting with things.

Beta is nice for one thing, I have no LB or DBs of note and I can still stop offenses. So it's got that going for it.

Ratings are nice but it’s the same play vs play match ups that matter

Firstly, thanks to both you and CJ for taking the time to take a proper look at BETA. I'd much rather people made their own minds up. Addressing your points in order.

1. Free agent pool: It's a mature League (12 seasons) and their should be enough talent in free agency to make a difference. Having taken over plenty of near dead franchises, it's fairly easy to turn them around quite quickly if you look hard enough.

This is true in both versions of the game, in particular when a League reaches 5-8 years. Prior to that, free agency is often a dry rockbed.

I've done as much as I can to make viewing the free agent list easier each season - posting an easy to filter sheet for the draft class and free agent pool https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iWls1ZVLzNlnqbY_gh2OphrV8FfebGKB-EyYTewDzf0/edit?usp=sharing I've also posted a hints and tips thread to guide people into what they should be looking for in each position and general gameplay hints https://lol.myfootballnow.com/forums/1/565?page=1 and a ton of data on plays, stats etc to let people know where their team needs to be better and how to do it

I'm doing my part to make the game simpler, more interactive and to make owners better. As the old saying goes 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'

I'm not doing all those things for my benefit, or for people to think 'he's a nice guy' or 'who does he think he is, trying to tell me how to run a team'. I want my Leagues to be competitive, I want players to get better.

2. I think (and this is personal opinion) that people have become conditioned with 4.5 and are reluctant to move away from a tried and tested formula in that system. This is why I did a deep dive into play stats across the League, to allow people to open their playbooks and be more expansive. Those with less exposure to 4.5 tend to come in and are more prepared to try different things.

At the same time, people need to be aware why a play works and why it doesn't - which is largely down to player attributes. you can't expect to get a TE to get 500+ passing yards if he has 50 speed and 25 pass catching but gets a high overall rating because he is strong and can block both the pass and run. Whereas a TE with 80+ speed and 75+ pass catching and ball carry could get you those yards, but he may be getting bullied when he tries to block, thus severely impacting a rush attack or QB protection in the pass.

3. The rules system needs to be more user friendly, I have half a dozen rules and I'm not convinced half of them work exactly the way I want. The over-ride sheets are ok but you have no control of the depth chart if one or more of your players are injured or removed from the play via fatigue settings. But that's going off topic and is a debate for future discussion.

4. I don't disagree about big plays, I've said throughout their needs to be more passes (and completions) where the ball travels more than 20+ yards in the air. Maybe for that to happen, the running game has to be dominant for a while. To clarify, if this version becomes a sim where teams run the ball 50-60 times a game then that should force a change to control the run and open up the pass. I don't think we're a million miles away from that happening and I'm trying to highlight that by posting regular stat updates - which I occasionally pass on to JDB, what he does with that info I have no idea.



I know we have had disagreements but I think we are both wanting the same thing and I'd like to think that we could work together and come up with a solution that works for the majority. Whether or not JDB would pay any heed is another discussion.


Final point is the latest thread to appear re: the Punt block exploit. This 'glitch' has done more to drive people away from MFN than anything else - this has been fixed in BETA. To apply that fix affects the blocking for every play in the game. IF people want the current loopholes closed, they are going to have to embrace BETA. That glitch has led to a growth in the roster only leagues, which has grown healthily over the last 12 months. Going from 2 or 3 Leagues to 8 or 10.

Roster only gameplay is (at times) painful but people are happy to play it as they believe they get a fairer crack of the whip. If you can build a roster and get the right coach, you can win. It's definitely not the answer moving forward but shows there is a market for it - and that is largely from people looking for fairness and a level playing field.

*Eight Roster Only Leagues, all bar one have 75%+ ownership*

I'll pm you later with some thoughts. I'm pretty sure we can generate close to as many yards but the game play looks different.