The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - League News/General Discussion

Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By Beercloud
10/12/2017 2:13 am
Carolina Panthers sends:
Jose Grogan (QB)

San Francisco 49ers sends:
Ralph Robison (WR)
Willie Lewis (QB)


(This is an automated message. If you believe this trade warrants additional investigation, please contact the league admin.)

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By Beercloud
10/12/2017 1:36 pm
A big trade here between two NFC teams.

The San Francisco 49ers trade away 1970 Rookie QB of the Year Willie Lewis and speedster WR Ralph Robinson to Carolina for QB Jose Grogan. Grogan has been living out of his suitcase this season as it is his 3 team and we haven't got to week 2 yet.

I see this as a big win for Carolina with this trade. The big question is though, with Lewis being in a contract year, how much will he be looking for?

Note: This completes the trade limit between Carolina and San Francisco.
Last edited at 10/12/2017 1:41 pm

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By setherick
10/12/2017 9:14 pm
I don't understand this trade at all. If this were a voting league, I would vote to veto it. I don't see the return value for SF here.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By Pernbronze
10/12/2017 11:54 pm
I put high emphasis on scrambling ability to throw well under pressure. I also like having a starting QB with good enough holding. His accuracy will grow so I'm looking at this long term to hopefully put me over the hump.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By Beercloud
10/13/2017 12:27 am
San Francisco could've got more I think.

setherick reminds me that we don't have a trade rejection process in place. I was suppose to put that together after you guys voted in your Reps. I will do that in the rules section. Reps do have a trade rejection vote with 3 votes needed to reject a trade. If anyone has a trade they don't like contact your Rep along side with your guys views on trades in the trade thread.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By Pernbronze
10/13/2017 10:03 pm
Grogan sure made me look brilliant that game with a 155.34 QBR

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By Beercloud
10/13/2017 10:41 pm
All players involved in this trade showed up for their new teams this week. But yes Grogan went off. He must of read my review on the trade. lol

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By setherick
10/14/2017 10:47 am
Pernbronze wrote:
I put high emphasis on scrambling ability to throw well under pressure. I also like having a starting QB with good enough holding. His accuracy will grow so I'm looking at this long term to hopefully put me over the hump.


If I jack Scrambling up to 100, then Grogan does look like the better overall QB. To the best of my knowledge, Scramble applies on the run. I don't know if it mitigates the under pressure penalty when the QB is flat footed. I have an active question about this on the MFN-1 boards. If it works when a QB is flat footed, then I agree that this trade was balanced.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By punisher
10/15/2017 1:54 pm
setherick wrote:
Pernbronze wrote:
I put high emphasis on scrambling ability to throw well under pressure. I also like having a starting QB with good enough holding. His accuracy will grow so I'm looking at this long term to hopefully put me over the hump.


If I jack Scrambling up to 100, then Grogan does look like the better overall QB. To the best of my knowledge, Scramble applies on the run. I don't know if it mitigates the under pressure penalty when the QB is flat footed. I have an active question about this on the MFN-1 boards. If it works when a QB is flat footed, then I agree that this trade was balanced.


here is that thread = https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/forums/6/1427?page=1#8601

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and San Francisco 49ers

By setherick
10/16/2017 7:24 am
Ray pointed me to this old JDB quote.

jdavidbakr wrote:
The scrambling ability is really the QB's likelihood to leave the pocket and further to scramble instead of throw the ball away. A low scramble skill really just means more of a pocket passer. The scrambling skill is one that you may just want to turn off in your weights if you don't care about that style of quarterback. It doesn't translate to another position, so you can either value a Russell Wilson style QB or ignore that attribute altogether.


This thread: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/community/1/249?page=1

Scrambling was essential in the pre-0.4.1 days because of how badly pass blocking was broken and so the QB was always moving because he was always being rushed.

Pass blocking seems to be a lot more consistent - although you still see a lot of mega sack games where you sack your opponent 15-20 times - but you can usually solve those problems with adjusting OL players and not having to always rely on your QB. This is why I've deemphasized it in my weights and try not to play OL with <70 pass blocking (unless he is a rookie with a lot of potential and I want to get play experience) and ideally not <80.

Still trying to get an answer from JDB about whether Scrambling mitigates the QB being under pressure at all, which is in my opinion, the only reason that it would be as valuable as FOV anymore.