Okay, we are getting closer now.

So we have : FS Booth 63/63 (11), RG Burns 70/70 (12), RT Martin 79/79 (10), RG McAdoo 72/72 (8), DT Stone 81/81 (15) and RDE Vasquez 79/79 (14).

Now, we need to know a few things.

1. New Orleans Roster. Did they need DL and OL help? Vasquez and Stone 'look' pretty good, and Martin is pretty good. Especially if Vasquez and Stone come with some Speed to pressure the QB. Depending on Weights, Burns and McAdoo could also be valuable. Smith just looks like Depth.

Because it looks like New Orleans just added 2 DL and 3 OL that are Starter to Back Up Quality.

2. What is New Orleans attempting to do? Are they trying to build a Short Term Winner? Do they have a Good Secondary or Good QB/RB that they are trying to help by getting this OL and DL?

3. What did New Orleans give up? If they gave up Three 1st Round Picks... well, that was dumb. If they gave up Three 3rd Round Picks, and maybe even Three 4th Round Picks, then they got Rentals that are likely better than they would have Drafted anyways.

4. How well/poorly has New Orleans Drafted? If Bust after Bust, maybe they just don't like the Draft and reasonably feel they can't get Talent there (which could go back to improper Weight Values, or to much emphasis on Skills that don't lead directly to Production... like when I put DTs at DE and expected something awesome that didn't happen).

After all, what good does keeping Picks do for New Orleans if they Draft like my beloved Cleveland Browns ever year?

Which is what I mean by Context.

Now, the fact that New Orleans failed to produce has very little bearing on if the Trades were 'Fair and Ethical'... you can have a great plan and **** at executing it.

I had a great plan, I was going to move my 2 Stud DTs out to DE, Trade for a great DT... and have my Starting DL set for the next 10 Seasons with 3 Monsters. It was a beautiful vision.

I didn't value the ability of Speed. I just figured my awesome DTs would eat up space, letting my LBs dominate. QBs would be pressured, RBs would be destroyed behind the line of scrimmage. It was going to be glorious.

Then the games were Played, I went something like 4-12, and my DEs did virtually nothing while my DT wasn't really killing it either. Because, to the Engine that runs the Games, Speed kills.

My LBs lacked Speed, so maybe the DL did it's job but the LBs couldn't hit those gaps and destroy? Either way, I learned real quick... I need Speed on the DL. So off goes the guy I just sent a 1st and 2nd to acquire, so I could move my DEs back to DT where they belong. Gone is my old 34 that I changed to, back to the 43 I had when I started.

My plan was solid in my mind, using Reality... but it doesn't match the Game Engine.

So did KC fleece me? Did my Trade ****?

No. It was a good value, and I got exactly what I was looking for. The issue was with my Defensive Design, with my Theory of how my Defense would play. My plan Failed, but the Trade was a great trade for both sides. I got the Stud DT I wanted, KC got Good Picks to use.

Sometimes the fault isn't in the Trade, but the execution of the Owner's Plan.

That is the problem atm, finding out exactly what was traded, what Draft picks were given in the example we are looking at. As far as what happened to you on the DTs to DEs, I was lucky enough to have a couple of veteran owners be gracious enough to inform me about the need for speed at DE, so I knew about that coming in. They also gave me the "lowdown" on a lot of other key attributes and weights by position. So, even though Im new, I have been given a lot of information about what works in player attributes, game planning, and controls. That is why I raise my eyebrows when I see two losing teams trading a "primetime" CB to a competitive team during the season, teams that have no one near that rated ability in that position. Sorry, but that just has a bad smell.

League Forums - League News - General Discussions.

Every Trade in that League that is Accepted is posted there. It shows both teams, and what each side gave up.

This is the deal Im referring to, Dew CB, who wouldnt want to have this guy at corner? If you have been playing for 5 seasons, getting beat 80% of the time, would you let this guy go? The team roster shows that they have not been getting high value players. Take a look at Pittsburghs roster, it does not reflect someone who has 5 seasons exp. They have 8 DT's, 2 of the DT's are high rated. They dont have an LDE! 4 MLBs all rated in the 50s!! , their Safeties are pitiful, and they only have one of each! I mean cmon! something really stinks here. It just doesnt add up Brex, its ridiculous. For the Draft picks they have sent off, the players they have traded, it doesnt make sense. Im sure there are more severe deviations from the norm with this team, but if I had to bet, I would bet that it is not being played/managed by an individual, its being controlled and used by another team manager. Or a friend or family member that a team manager calls up and tells them to go online to the game and hit the accept trade button. There's several ways it can be manipulated, which is why the best control for that will be by the trade value meter and refining it to bring trades into better balance. There's no other way that I can see, as using commissioners and other players to approve trades is not going to work.

OK, I found it Brex, thanks. Take a look at it and see what you think... Pittsburgh sends: Timothy Dew (CB) 2030 Round 3 Atlanta sends: 2028 Round 1 (Tampa Bay) 2029 Round 2 (Atlanta) 2030 Round 1 (Atlanta)

I guarantee you that those Round 1 picks are not going to be lasting long with jl1980, they will be traded. And that team will not improve much, if at all. Whomever is controlling that team may try to make them look better now that they are getting scrutiny, like I said, it really isnt hard to do, especially for a very experienced player in this game.

Chicago gave up a bunch of street FA type talent and guys that are going to be retiring soon for a high 2nd and a high 3rd, it takes two people to make a trade work though. He just happens to be one (there are many who do this) of the owners who looks for newer or bad owners and takes advantage of them to bring in young guys. I trade older players for picks as well where I can get them. I mentioned this one because you were specifically talking about those trades. Really there is no way you are going to completely eliminate bad trades and allow it to be a working viable part of the game.

Looks like a legitimate trade to me. I'd do it both ways; I'd trade the CB if I was rebuilding and he's going to be retired by the time the team is competitive, and trade the picks if I was on the verge of a championship.

Such a trade doesn't look unbalanced at first glance. It's not blatant fleecing, and it's not my fault if you can't use the CB that I traded you properly, or fail to draft good players with the picks you get from me.

Suspicions of collusion should be investigated. If two teams are making very unbalanced trades then by all means raise the alarm. But that doesn't mean you should make it harder for good owners to obtain the assets they value. Owners value assets differently based on their particular situation, and you shouldn't stop them from trading/obtaining assets that they value at a cost they're okay with.

No one tells the Patriots they can't pick up players anymore just because they have a knack for developing underperforming players that were cut. At the same time, allegations of tampering are investigated carefully by the NFL. We shouldn't make it harder for good, legitimate owners to get what they want, or accuse them of gaming the system just because they succeed more. At the same time, we should crack down on those suspected of cheating.

I agree with Chipped, seems like a Legit Trade to me.

Sure, the CB is All World... but he's getting Two 1st Round Picks and a 2nd Round Pick for him.

If the 2nd is high enough, he can land 3 Players that are 90's to build with for moving that CB.

He should certainly walk away with 3 Starters once he uses those Picks, and he only gave up 1 Starter to get them.

The only thing I wouldn't have done is sent my 3rd Rounder with Dew, but that's not exactly a Deal Breaker and I can get wanting to recoup a Pick of some value in return when moving that many 1st and 2nd Round Picks in a deal (plus you can only give 2 more Picks than you receive, so New Orleans had to send a pick of some type in the deal).

Wow GRANDDAD, you speak assuming you have the answers and insights. I don't owe you a thing, but I will offer commentary this one time:

One of the leagues you cited had an allocation draft. I was one of only 2 or 3 teams that drafted young; so out of the gate we were marginal, but got lots of high end talent that only needed to mature. Our talent was high end because a 5th yr player rated 90/90 will be more highly thought of than a 44/91 at the current time. We went young and got deeper talent as a result.

Once our rookies guys matured, we were loaded and young. Many of the players are in their 8th and 9th seasons now and we are trying to turn the team over balancing it with competitiveness. We didn't cheat or anything else, we took a different philosophy and for the team I wanted to build, that was my choice.

Many owners experience success in this game, I am merely one of several. Some go through the draft, others through the FA route, others a combination. We pursue winning aggressively, fully within the boundaries of the game and will continue to do so. Everything I've done is within the rules of the game and therefore you have no right to accuse or slander me of anything.

Not everything we do turns to gold, but the effort to put a quality product on the field is there. Perhaps you should stop complaining about my teams and put that same effort into winning. Somehow you feel justified in attacking me, whatever, I'm done. Enjoy the FREE game and focus on playing instead of criticizing and accusing others because you don't like them or hold the same opinion of how to play. A point of view is one thing, calling others out is another...

FYI - You can see all the processed trades in your league by going to Messages > Trades.

Here are the trades for MFN2:

https://mfn2.myfootballnow.com/trades

I can't believe someone would get so worked up about trades they don't even know the details of.

It looks like they gave up one 2nd and one 3rd for all 6 players.