if you had one or more teams in your league(s) that you could trade off your failed first round and second round picks, your "busts", or players that you dont need or are non-impact, your older top rated players who are hitting 8 years and more with high enough trade value on the trade meter so you can get first round picks, which are currently underrated at 900 pts on the trade meter or less, in return? . Wouldnt that be nice?

Well, guess what!!! Good news my friends, there are accounts out there that have been set up specifically for that purpose! But... you have to get to them first, before they trade off the picks to another team in your league, unless it was pre-arranged or the account user has already made a choice, then you dont have a chance anyway. They are not very hard to notice or spot. The "gm" selects a team in your league and right away trades off one or more first round picks. There are no messages (you should try right away, but you will most likely not get a reply), comments, what-have-yous, like u might expect from someone who plays in 20 or more leagues and has been playing for several seasons or more. The "gm" does not actively manage the team, it is left to the AI, so you have a fairly easy win against them as there is no gameplanning, scouting, rules/overides. If you look at the "gm"'s record in your league and the other leagues that gm is or has been in, you will find a won/loss record around .300, which is about what the AI does. Sometimes, the person(s) who run these accounts will set up a basic gameplan, scout now & then, not anything that takes a lot of time, but will have the account win a few extra games to make them look better or more normal, but never compete for a playoff or higher.

Here is one good example of many, the account is currently "active" in 19 leagues, check out the following very recent trade, one of many that this account has been involved in: https://mfn70.myfootballnow.com/forums/thread/1/88?page=1#140

and another recent trade by the same account .... https://mfn68.myfootballnow.com/forums/thread/1/112?page=1#182

Keep in mind that this account does not actively manage the team for games to be played, that is left to the AI. No gameplanning, no rules/overides, and no transactions other than the initial trades for the first round and 2nd round picks, and sometimes a bid to hike the price up for a FA. Sometimes there will be a little "maintenance", so that the team will win an extra game or two vs another AI run team. Helps to keep the appearances up.

In order to benefit from trading with one of these accounts, you must either know the account user or someone who does, or you must set up your own "dupe" account. :)

I'm not saying this isn't true, but how do you know this? As far as I am aware, there is no way for you to tell if I (for example) have any rules, gameplan, etc.

I am curious if you actually have a way of seeing this information that I don't (or am not aware of), or if you are just speculating.

Nothing wrong with speculating as long as you're not presenting it as actual knowledge, which you seem to be doing here.

Fair enough WE, you could say that Im speculating, or you could also say that Im stating the obvious, which a player with your experience and knowledge of the game would be able to detect with relative ease. Its not hard to figure out when you are playing an AI vs an actual player who sets up a gameplan, scouts, and has rules/overides, has made an effort of any kind to add or cut players and set them up in the depth chart, is actually playing the game. Look at the transaction history. Its not really all that hard to figure out.

But hey, for those of you who like it this way, no problem, it will continue, unless there are a majority of players who would rather have a level playing field and not have to set up "dupe" accounts so they can have 2 or 3 first round picks every draft. How hard is that to see? Its not the only way, and of course, there is the honest way to do the same through trades. But... have you looked at the example? Have you ever been involved in a trade involving first rounders with that account? It has been used for more than a few league leading teams. Do I need to keep posting examples like the one in the previous post? That account is one of the prime examples, I will step back and let others post examples if they want to. Not gonna bang a drum if the crowd doesnt want to hear it or dance. Thought it would be good overall to put this out for all to see and be more aware of, whether or not they may have one or more "dupe" accounts in their league.

We don't need a witch hunt. If you suspect something, bring it up privately with JDB. You can easily private message him.

This thread was started with good intentions, but that doesn't mean it'll remain a good thing. A false accusation (intentionally or not) made this publicly can be damaging.

I understand you take cheating seriously and I applaud your efforts. The public forums are a great place to discuss the steps we can take to prevent cheating. They are not a place to call out other owners.

Well stated Chip, and I will do so. The intent was awareness more than anything else.

I don't question your intent with this post, or even that you are wrong in this example.

However, there are some things that seem obvious that may not necessarily be what you think.

For example, I am sure there have been games where my opponents felt that I must not have gameplanned at all based on how the game played out. I know there are times when I feel like my gameplan was completely ignored by the AI. You can't really use in game performance as an indicator of whether someone gameplans or not.

I have also been in leagues where an AI controlled team won the championship. So, the performance of the team doesn't always correlate to whether an owner is active, non-existent, or just let's the AI run things. There is a lot of this game that is completely random.

There are also cases of owners trying to cheat the system, but not every example where this appears to be the case is actually true.

Because of all this, I very rarely (if ever) accuse someone of cheating. I think I've done it twice. Once I reported it to JDB and I was correct. The other time I made my accusation publicly (I think) and I now believe I was wrong...the owner in question just doesn't know what he is doing.

Personally I don't have an issue with anyone raising these concerns publicly instead of ONLY going to JDB, primarily because we never hear the outcome in those cases.

If there is an owner that others feel is cheating, and the rest of us never hear if anything was done about it (or if it was determined there is no cheating), it seems as if nobody cares and we should just learn to expect/accept that type of behavior.

You bring up an interesting point I hadn't considered when I commented. Some transparency in the investigations would indeed help.

I think cases of proven cheating and subsequent banning should be publicized so we can take comfort in the fact that things are being done, and that everyone on here is aware of the consequences of cheating.

However, publicizing cases where cheating wasn't proven is more of a gray area. What does it mean when innocence is found? Some scenarios to consider:

1. A very good cheater is found not guilty. Does this mean we lower our suspicions in the future, thus allowing said cheater to cheat more? If suspicions aren't lowered, when are we allowed to accuse the cheater again?
2. A non-cheating, experienced user is found not guilty. Does that increase suspicion in the future or lower the community's view of said user?
3. A non-cheating user is found to be not guilty, and his actions were taken because he is inexperienced/inept. Does this discourage said user from playing the game more?

My own opinions for these scenarios:


I would lower my suspicions regarding similar actions that were already found to be "not guilty" of cheating.


It would not impact my view of said owner at all, unless I had previously thought he may be cheating. In that case, it would improve my view of that owner and I would be less suspicious.


I would hope not. I would think that user would feel good about his reputation as a cheater being proven false, even if it were replaced with the reputation of a "newb". We've all been there...I know I have. Hopefully it would encourage this owner to get better or seek advice from more successful owners knowing that some of their decisions have been so bad others thought they were cheating.

As a note, all of my opinions on the scenarios above are based on the assumption that the community would be given reasons for the "verdict".

Ex:
Player X has been found guilty of cheating and banned because of .....
Player Y has been found not guilty of cheating because of .....

GranddadB, here's my first and possibly the last post I'll submit on the topic.

I hardly ever post. I guess it goes back to an old expression (some say from Abraham Lincoln, others say Mark Twain) "better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

I'm not implying or inferring anyone here that posts often is a fool.

And I also am not as astute as apparently you are, in "knowing" (or suspecting) all the different possible ways that people can cheat.

Have you written JDB with your suspicions?

I DO know I enjoy playing this game. And I feel the BEST way to learn more about it, is to read these boards.

I have grown weary of your constant cheating accusations, along with your "wouldn't this be BETTER, (or to be a more accurate sim, we need to) if we did this like (insert idea) _______________ .

You've been here what, about a month? You appear to not be satisfied with the game as it's now played/configured.

There is a section under Community Forums called Suggestions. I don't know if you post there as I don't read that category, but maybe you could post there with your suggestions?

This is not meant as an attack on you or anyone else. Nor is it defense of anyone you suspect of wrong doing.

If I'm totally wrong and off base here, I'm certain I'll be told, and then I'll just stop reading these boards.

Appreciate anyone who really likes this game, plays honest, and posts in the community chat Kahoon, and yes, I have also posted in suggestions. I agree that I have probably posted too much about this subject, this last time was the result of just seeing it to where it was so **** obvious, and not just my opinion. And point well taken by all who have posted in the recent threads about this, it shouldnt be a "noob" taking a lead on this, but I saw that it seemed to be ignored and sort of brushed under the table. And I really do like the game, very much so, so that is prob one of the reasons that I reacted the way that I did. So, whats done is done, im not sorry for putting it out there, I guess Im also worn out from cheating and hacking that I have witnessed in other online games that I have played in. My apologies to anyone that I irritated or upset, that was definitely not my intent. cheers, gdad