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Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By marinarul10
2/27/2021 4:38 pm
I think is time to get rid of this ''at least one 1st round pick at any time'' or whatever the rule is....is causing only issues ..... i was very upset when i didn't get the CB King because of a stupid rule but i move on ..... now is time to focus on not letting teams ruined(TB) and other create a dynasty (Carolina)....

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By jgcruz
2/27/2021 4:55 pm
You may suggest a rule change next offseason.

And remember, nothing prevents anyone from challenging any trade he thinks is untoward. I think our goal should be to prevent a team from overreaching, which tends to ruin a team in the long run. But that is a subjective call and the reason it’s done by committee.

On the other hand, everyone is free to try to build a dynasty. That’s why we play. However, a dynasty should not be built on the carcasses of franchises that were mismanaged and ultimately ruined. It’s not good for the long term competitiveness of the league or keeping GMs actively engaged. It’s therefore up to the GMs to police ourselves and the league, while remembering it’s just a game which we should enjoy in victory and defeat. (Although it’s more fun to win.)

Game on.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By marinarul10
2/27/2021 5:00 pm
jgcruz wrote:
You may suggest a rule change next offseason.


Can i suggest it now,being approved and in effect whenever you guys think the actual rules will allow it?

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By setherick
2/27/2021 7:59 pm
marinarul10 wrote:
I think is time to get rid of this ''at least one 1st round pick at any time'' or whatever the rule is....is causing only issues ..... i was very upset when i didn't get the CB King because of a stupid rule but i move on ..... now is time to focus on not letting teams ruined(TB) and other create a dynasty (Carolina)....


Agreed. I officially challenge this trade if it's allowed to proceed again as written. 2x 1's for 3 rentals and a rotational guy is not a fair trade.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By jgcruz
2/27/2021 8:43 pm
setherick wrote:
marinarul10 wrote:
I think is time to get rid of this ''at least one 1st round pick at any time'' or whatever the rule is....is causing only issues ..... i was very upset when i didn't get the CB King because of a stupid rule but i move on ..... now is time to focus on not letting teams ruined(TB) and other create a dynasty (Carolina)....


Agreed. I officially challenge this trade if it's allowed to proceed again as written. 2x 1's for 3 rentals and a rotational guy is not a fair trade.


I don't think the trade has been reposted. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By jgcruz
2/27/2021 8:53 pm
marinarul10 wrote:
jgcruz wrote:
You may suggest a rule change next offseason.


Can i suggest it now,being approved and in effect whenever you guys think the actual rules will allow it?



I suggest we work on a specific proposal with the intention that it become effective next season. However, if the majority wants to move sooner, i.e., it will go into immediate effect, I'm open to it. Please therefore make your specific proposal - which must be seconded.

I do think it's worth waiting on rather than doing it during the draft..

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By jouameng
2/27/2021 9:08 pm
setherick wrote:
marinarul10 wrote:
I think is time to get rid of this ''at least one 1st round pick at any time'' or whatever the rule is....is causing only issues ..... i was very upset when i didn't get the CB King because of a stupid rule but i move on ..... now is time to focus on not letting teams ruined(TB) and other create a dynasty (Carolina)....


Agreed. I officially challenge this trade if it's allowed to proceed again as written. 2x 1's for 3 rentals and a rotational guy is not a fair trade.


So you disagree that Gonzalez and Howard are players that are worth a 1st each respectively and Elizondo+Clayton aren't as good as the 2 players that I'm receiving in return? All of which are players that he should be able to resign. I know for sure that I can get 1sts from contending teams for Howard and Gonzalez but would that not perpetuate the "dynasty" of those teams as well? Tampa Bay, went 6-10 this year but just a year removed from an 11-5 season. It's not unrealistic that they can contend this year again. Especially with how pitiful the rest of the teams are in the NFC besides the Redskins, Rams, and Lions while the NFC South is a constant bloodbath where any team could come out on top.

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By CrazyRazor
2/27/2021 9:25 pm
jouameng wrote:
setherick wrote:
marinarul10 wrote:
I think is time to get rid of this ''at least one 1st round pick at any time'' or whatever the rule is....is causing only issues ..... i was very upset when i didn't get the CB King because of a stupid rule but i move on ..... now is time to focus on not letting teams ruined(TB) and other create a dynasty (Carolina)....


Agreed. I officially challenge this trade if it's allowed to proceed again as written. 2x 1's for 3 rentals and a rotational guy is not a fair trade.


So you disagree that Gonzalez and Howard are players that are worth a 1st each respectively and Elizondo+Clayton aren't as good as the 2 players that I'm receiving in return? All of which are players that he should be able to resign. I know for sure that I can get 1sts from contending teams for Howard and Gonzalez but would that not perpetuate the "dynasty" of those teams as well? Tampa Bay, went 6-10 this year but just a year removed from an 11-5 season. It's not unrealistic that they can contend this year again. Especially with how pitiful the rest of the teams are in the NFC besides the Redskins, Rams, and Lions while the NFC South is a constant bloodbath where any team could come out on top.


I can't agree that Elizondo & Clayton are anywhere near the caliber of the 2 players you were receiving in return. Gonzalez is borderline 1st Rd because of his age. Half of his career is over, if not more than half (probably 60% of his career is over). The biggest issue is that the trade scores aren't reliable. The trade scores are not a good signifier of value when it comes to players.
Last edited at 2/27/2021 9:25 pm

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By setherick
2/27/2021 9:31 pm
Here's how I see the 4 players:

Elizondo - 10 year, 59 SP, 82 ST
* Going to start dropping SP, AC, and ST
* Potentially 2 years left of playing time
* Real value is a mid-to-late 3 if not less

Gonzalez - 9 year, 77 SP, 96 ST
* Potentially 3 years left of playing time
* Run defender only since his SP/AC will prevent him from being a premier edge rusher
* Could be worth a 1, but not a high 1 and just judging by TB's record, I suspect both 1's will be in the top 15
* Will drop SP, AC, ST after next season

Clayton (DB) - 9 year, 96 SP
* Will lose 10-20 SP during camp (potentially more) and 10 more points the season after
* Two years left at CB1 or CB4/5 but definitely not a premier RCB (CB2) or slot CB (CB3) anymore
* Real value is a 4

Howard - 3 year, 72 SP, 85 ST, 69 AC, 96 PR, 83/100 RD

* Worth a mid-to-late 1, maybe, but more likely a 2 + 4 read below why
* 72/69 SP/AC means that he'll never be a premier edge rusher and best suited to play the RDE in run defense
* You can find a better, faster edge rusher in the mid to late rounds, and a better run defender in the late rounds as well, Howard is mediocre at both
Last edited at 2/27/2021 9:32 pm

Re: Completed Trade: Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

By jouameng
2/27/2021 9:32 pm
The trade score wasn't taken into account when the trade was offered as the final trade score isn't even close. 4068 to 2421. Trade score didn't play a role. It was simply, Dudley is worth a 1st and can fetch a first from a contending team. Howard is worth a 1st. Clayton/Elizondo for his 2 players. Even IF the value tilted my way and made it a bad trade for him, I still don't feel like it would be a trade worth overturning.